Ice Mining extraordinaire

Using max mining mods on hulks, in 2 hours 45 minutes my team is able to extract 390 clear icicles and profit to the tune of 163 million isk. (that works out to 59m isk/hr)

SOLO ORE MINING
xin's mega: 8.93 m3/s (no fleet boost)
warf's retriever: 18.71m3/s (no fleet boost)
FLEET ICE MINING
below assumes lvl 4 exhumer and fleet orca boosting

ice hulk (notank): 19.67m3/s
ice mack (ice mods): 17.21m3/s
ice skiff (ice mods):  15.66m3/s
ice skiff (tank): 12.54m3/s
ice retriever (warf): 12.52m3/s

 Market Index for domain region (highest buy/volume)

This translates to xin making 6.6m isk/hr (plain scordite); warf  13.8m isk/hr (plain scordite), or 8.9m isk/hr (icicles)...one could boost that by up to 10% if massive scordite could be mined exclusively.
my hulks make 14m isk/hr on icicles...in 2.75hrs my income at immediate sale is 77m for 2 hulks. If i wanted to go with skiffs instead (the ice mod ones) it would take 3 hours. It would take Warfdalic 8.65hrs to extract the 390 icicles required, and he'd obviously make 55% more iskies mining ore.

1. I take that 390 Icicles, refine them and take straight to market making  85.4m isk...I also have planetary interaction materials that are worth 11.7m isk at Jita (buy orders); minus 1.6m isk in import/export taxes = total sale value 95.5m isk
2. I take that 390 Icicles, refine them and skim off a giant secure can worth of heavy water (9750), liquid ozone (9750) and helium isotopes (26065) leaving surplus to sell at Jita for 61.5m isk. I take the three GSCs to my planetary interaction location and make 65 runs of Amarr Fuel Blocks which produces 2600 units. listing the sale at about, oh, 40.3m isk; minus 1.6m isk in import/export taxes = total 100m isk
3. I take that 390 Icicles, refine them and skim off a giant secure can worth of heavy water (9750), liquid ozone (9750) and helium isotopes (26065) leaving surplus to sell at Jita for 61.5m isk. I take the three GSCs to my planetary interaction location and make 65 runs of Amarr Fuel Blocks which produces 2600 units. I then use those blocks to power an Amarr Medium Control Tower that's running alchemy reactions for Neo Mercurite for 130 hours. (i also need to replace 650 mercury lost in the process which costs 3m isk at Jita) ...130 unrefined neo mercurite processes into 5200 neo mercurite which sells at Jita for a profit of 104m isk; minus 1.6m isk in import/export taxes = total 161m isk

*note that this does not take into account the surplus P.I. materials.

390 Icicles make enough liquid ozone (9750) to make 2600 Amarr fuel blocks, with surplus ice products

Assimilation vs Accommodation

so, do i blindly ignore what has come before and trundle into the future not realizing what's REALLY changed?

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it;
those who fail to learn history correctly – why, they are simply doomed.
- ACHEM DRO'HM

First off let's begin with two moronic quotes from dumbass devs.

"The current mining frigates will not be losing their mining bonuses in Inferno 1.2, and we do not plan to leave people without entry level mining options." ~CCP Fozzie

"If the appropriate bay is full, the module/drone will deactivate as normal, and excess ore is lost." ~CCP Masterplan

 both dead wrong, both in the past, the present and the future.
Let's tackle the next hurdle....what actually CHANGED for mining barges?

hulk losing 531 hull hp
gaining 787 armor hp
gaining 681 shield hp but the resists are all screwy
the hulk didn't have that bad of an increase in recharge
the signature radius didn't increase
the ore hold increased by 1000m3 since last i uploaded pics
mackinaw gains a low slot
gains 72 cpu
gains 1464 structure hp
gains 130 sig radius (effectively doubled)
gains 1512 armor hp
gains 1819 shield hp
shield resists all screwy tho
recharge more than doubled (bad)
the ore hold increased by 3750m3 since last i uploaded pics
skiff was massively boosted...only really scary thing is the recharge got nerfed HARD.
the ore hold was nerfed down to 15000 since i last uploaded pics

covetor, retriever, and procurer

how about the shield tank for the hulk all the carebears are whining about? how much was it really affected from this iteration to the next? The fittings haven't changed so it's easy to test (same implants; same skills, except shield management 3 on the test server; same rigs; same modules)
 old hulk

and how about mining rates? in the old system i preferred the hulk because of the best tanking and best cargo space (i tended to go afk alot) with an output of 13.28m3/s; I'd switch out to a mack with full mining modules when i was able to sit for extended periods without losing focus and get 18.81m3/s output.

In the new system i'm using the mack for a tanked afk machine (50% tougher than the old hulk) with an output of 12.16m3/s; I switch to a hulk with max mining mods/rigs (although only lvl4 exhumer) for an output of 19.08m3/s.

*-note: all fits and output calculations assume ice harvesting

My bookmarks

needs no introduction:
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

excellent guide to gunnery mechanics
http://tinyurl.com/combatmechanics

guy to watch is CCP Dr.EyjoG
his latest forum posts are here:
http://tinyurl.com/Dr-EyjoG
(bottom of page 3 and top of page 4)
his blogs (special attention QEN):
http://tinyurl.com/9a6vsc9

jester's trek blog is very informative, especially on quirks of the economy
http://tinyurl.com/JestersEconomy

here's a handy cheatsheet for Planetary colonies:
http://fazenda.w-space.org/

here's a guide to increase faction standing:
http://tinyurl.com/FactionStandings
here's a cheatsheet to boost corporate standing:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Mission_Hubs
here's a decent to run amarr COSMOS
http://tinyurl.com/COSMOS-01

here's a cheatsheet if you have astrometrics V
http://tinyurl.com/astrometricsV

here's the old tried and true regional ore grid
http://eve-files.com/dl/256552

here's a guide to invention
http://tinyurl.com/T2invention

want to know who's who with blue status?
http://www.eveskunk.com/standings.php

want instant intel on a character, his corp, his buddies and hidden corp stats:
http://evewho.com/

mission cheatsheets:
http://tinyurl.com/5bgt9

want to browse markets eve wide:
http://eve-central.com/

how to locate people via ingame tools:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Locator_Agents

and my humble eve-files directory:
http://tinyurl.com/ministorum

------------
NPC damage types
http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/

ECM jamming calculator
http://pmic-eve.info/ECM_Calc/ECM_Chance_Calculator.html#
for a manual formula
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=801415#post801415

Turret and Launcher visual recognition
http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/06/turret-and-launcher-reference-chart.html

moon mineral reaction calculator
http://eve.stop-clan.de/tools/lookup.php

2007-2012 null sec sovereignty video
http://youtu.be/to7CHVR-Mxk

and how can i forget DOTLAN? just google it. lolz

what you can make from salvaged materials:
http://eveinfo.com/salvagedmaterials/
what bits are needed for rigs
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pk-mfiI5S9zH-zKPiia4fYw

some really excellent databases (Loyalty pts, wormholes, etc)
http://www.ellatha.com/eve/LP-Stores

free spreadsheets
http://www.evehelp.myby.co.uk/eveunlocked2.html

cheatsheet for implants
http://home.wanadoo.nl/ntt/eve/library/implants.html

invention calculator
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
invention database
http://swag.rtk0.net/eveinfo/inventionbrowser.php

data centers. are they worth it?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Data_Centers#Kudi

the nerfed datacore Research agent calculator
http://hussars-online.ru/eve/datacore.php

the excellent Rooks and Kings videos
http://youtu.be/Xwql_Sp0QG8 (clarion call2)
http://youtu.be/j4hPTGN3Q6w (iron clad)
http://youtu.be/XrYe_4vHzgE (clarion call3)
http://youtu.be/RMFahR4wXTg (battlereport)


EON magazine's isk guide
http://isktheguide.com/

a very cool (refine or sell) 3rd party tool
http://eve.nikr.net/jeveasset
another one, much simpler
http://www.homo-programmatis.com/EveRefinery/

data on mission running profitability
http://srehn.com/blogs/index.php/2012/02/08/mission-running

recent CCP data on isk faucets/sinks
 http://twostep4csm.blogspot.ca/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html

CSM minutes - mining

CCP Xhagen asked it the meeting should discuss mining.
Two step asked if this was where the CSM trolls the player base and says that no one actually mines.
Seleene said mining is where you literally should be able to search for “unicorn dust” and “space whale oil” to build magical widgets.
Some CSM members jokingly said something about mining still being boring and it isn't supposed to be fun.
CCP Soundwave showed some statistics about mining since the drone regions changed and Hulkageddon. Mining in high sec is slightly up, low sec is way up and null sec is way, way up based on volume of ore.
Two step suggested that it would be cool if the character sheet showed you the volume you've mined in your lifetime.
CCP Arrow stated that the task to mine could stay the same but the visual elements could change to make the tasks more fun. For example when selecting an asteroid you could scan it to see more details about what was in it in terms of different types of ores in a single asteroid. The asteroid may even be displayed in a 3D manner showing the ore distribution.
Seleene asked if this would mean there were composite rocks with different ores and CCP Soundwave said that they would really want that.
CCP Soundwave indicated that ship of different sizes could be used but larger ships might be faster
or better.
Seleene asked for a proper capital mining vessel for ring mining.
CCP Soundwave also mentioned League of Legends, where there was a mechanic that allowed you to hide in bushes and that maybe you could use the asteroid interference to shield you from being scanned and maybe even being hidden from local.
Seleene pointed out that real asteroid belts have very low density (completely different from the famous Star Wars scene where the Millennium Falcon hid in the asteroid belt) while Trebor pointed out Ice Rings are more dense.
CCP Soundwave said they would be going with the Star Wars more dense field.
Two step asked if there would be rings in all security spaces and CCP Soundwave said they haven't decided but he'd prefer low sec and null sec only
Hans added “Put the best rings in low sec :) It needs a boost.”
Trebor added that you need to take damage if you are moving too fast and that his favorite Sci-Fi scene was from Wrath of Khan when the two starships appear out of the gas clouds and all hell breaks loose. If ring mining could provide that kind of experience, it would be great.
CCP Xhagen asked when we could expect ring mining. CCP Soundwave said after the POS work because it would most likely use the same team - best case scenario would be winter expansion 2013.
Seleene made the comment that there seemed to be some CCP resources not being used due to how the current production pipeline is being used.
CCP Soundwave indicated that these belts are going to long enough to fly in for hours. He also suggested the POSs may be used to scan the belts to indicate where the best ores might be.

my thoughts?
The "hiding from local" is pie in the sky concept that won't be coded. exploit? can you say "trial account cheap cloak"? i knew you could.
There apparently was no comment about the capital mining vessel from CCP. good. moron nullseccers.
I do like the idea of "composite" roids. But, it's a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"...this whole concept of 'ACTIVE' vs 'PASSIVE' is a bit silly since this game is literally a screensaver with a built in chat function. I'm not complaining though, since i used to play a game called 'JumpGate' and i was credited with discovering (and posting about) being able to increase mining output by orbiting the roid at high velocity.
the best quote is the second to last sentence. wow...it really will be ring mining. that's cool.

what i think should have been brought up:  the shitty benefit to the risk of low sec (nocxium prices)

What the new patch means to us (carebearish folk)

The idea is to make 3 types of mining barge (max yield/max cargo/max tank) that will make things alot more attractive to carebears, especially now that Orca fleets are so common for max yield.

1. The greedy industrialists will do what they've always done - max out mining upgrades for the fastest gatherer of ice/ore around. It was the pitifully tankable mack and now it will be the more expensive hulk with the same pitiful tank (because they believe they can gain more in profit than the gankers can grief)...and the hulk hasn't been boosted except to make it more attractive to the greed factor (hulk/covetor) 
2. They've made solo account holders who like to mine very happy with this patch too. imagine: it's like a hauler with lazorz. (mack/retriever)
   
3. CCP made it so that people willing to be less greedy can actually 'tank' the average lazy solo catalyst pilot out for shits and giggles. (skiff/procurer)

Singularity mining barges (inflight fitting screen)

That's all the test server mining ships set for (what i believe) is jester's recommended tank fit. They are all ice mining geared, btw. I've added notations as to m3/sec (although do note that the exhumers aren't set to exhumer 5 but only 4)...please note that all pics above do not include any fleet boosting.

The thing is mining ice lends itself very well to orca fleet ops. have a bunch of platinum insured covetors and you can pretty much go to town once the patch comes out.

my current maximum mining yield is the implants (sans rig of course) on a mack with orca support with 212.66s harvester duration.
This outputs 4 icicles every 212.66s for a cubic meter per second equivalent of 18.81m3/s.
My current maximum tank is the hulk with orca support and it only gives 3 icicles every 225.99s or 13.28m3/s
Squad commander: lvl4 orca, lvl4 warfare link, lvl4 info warfare, lvl4 armored/siege/info specialist; lvl5 skirmish specialist) - laser opt tech2, passive armorlink tech1, and shield harmony tech1. Plus mining foreman mindlink. 

max ice mining rate for the new patch would be....for mining upgrades, rig, implant, + lvl5 exhumer/barge (assuming above orca skills):

hulk=19.3m3/s
mack=18.0m3/s
skiff=16.4m3/s
covetor=18.3m3/s
retriever=17.3m3/s
procurer=15.6m3/s

although the covetor would be highly advisable for n00bs during fleet ops with orca support, for the bittervets the skiff looks to be mighty fine indeed at just 18% less efficient than the best hulk you can field (and at lvl5 exhumer mind you for the hulk)

neither the skiff nor the procurer lose much tank in the mid slots when going from full tank to max mining.

platinum insurance for the non-exhumer barges gives out this much:
25.75m isk covetor (costs 7.7m)
6.30m isk retriever (costs 1.9m)
1.84m isk procurer (costs 0.6m)

market value (current; domain; lowest sell)
covetor costs 33.4m
retriever costs 15.3m (price spike)
procurer costs 17.8m (massive spike, btw)


my assumption is that smart money goes to fully insured untanked covetors raking more value than griefers could impact. It's just the way i look at it currently with mackinaws (why are people using macks? for yield. period)
The attitude of carebears is: "fuck you, i'm going to mine way more than griefers can impact me"
Of course, this attitude lends itself too easily to "i'm greedy so it's the hulk maxed for yield" which will mean business as usual for hulkageddon. The risk averse carebears are going to be screaming like the trolls they are on the forums that they want CCP to make it inherently tanked so they can fit all the yield boosting modules they can possibly fit. lol. oh, the TEARS the glorious tears.

How about ORE?

Does mining ore solo make more iskies than mining ice in a fleet? I ran a test on singularity using a tanked retriever filling it's hold in 30 minutes (assuming 95% efficiency) with plain scordite, vs a covetor with mining upgrades mining clear icicles with an orca with gang bonuses out the wazoo.

 current Amarrian index ;  Scordite @ 212.91 isk/m3 vs  Clear Ice @ 270.09 isk/m3
All things being equal, ice seems the best bargain since it's over 25% more isk per cubic meter. All things are not equal though, since ore strip miners output more than ice harvesters per second.
So i decided to time how long a retriever fills it hold with scordite, then match that time with how many icicles would be mined in the same time. It's about 32.8 minutes assuming a 13% loss in efficiency for the ore miner due to depleted asteroids giving partial loads and the logistics of managing new targets. That's how long it takes me to get a full load of ore on a decent day.

So in just under thirty two minutes the retriever mined 28,125m3 of scordite worth 6.0m isk selling to buy orders.
In the same time period the covetor mined 36,000m3 of clear ice worth 9.7m isk selling to buy orders
Obviously it seems like i'm cheating with the fleet bonus, but i'm being pragmatic.

to be absolutely fair, to remove the fleet bonus on the orca and go with a retriever for mining ice the results are less than spectacular i'm assuming. here's the result: In 32.8 minutes you'd get almost 24 units or about 6.4m isk worth of ice products. fitting used was this
So what they've effectively done with the ice mining rig was to make the ore vs ice isk/m3/sec ratio roughly even (+/- 5% which of course you can make up by mining the denser roids)

Homecoming...out of null

Well, i certainly learned alot about how to live in 0.0
The only reason i left was my surprise at how nomadic null sec life really is.
I packed up shop and moved most of my nullsec market stuff, and jump clones to H-ADOC at the far end of the curse region pipe. Hopefully i can sell almost a trillion isk worth of sell orders.

Back in high sec now, mining ice in Gosalav. Prices on ice and minerals have really changed since i was last active.
2009-Amarr mineral/ice index
2012-Amarr mineral/ice index

Within 2 weeks of returning broke and with hardly any ships (compared to what i'd been required to produce in null) I've suddenly been able to afford an Orca, 2 mackinaws, the expensive parts for my Rorqual (clone vat bay and capital shield booster),


I'm training up some ganker alts to take care of macrobotters at the ice belt. It's a nice quiet belt and hulkageddon hardly knocks there - and i'd like to keep the riff-raff away so it doesn't attract attention. Ah yes, making friends and enemies in high sec. lol
[Catalyst, Hulkageddon mk0]
8x Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I (Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S)
Passive Targeting Array I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
3x Linear Flux Stabilizer I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
1x Hobgoblin I







Planetary Infrastructure is my new focus, since R&D agents got nerfed. I'm going to try and produce fuel blocks for sale by having most of my 4 accounts (yes, i got a new account last month)...to that end i've decided to set up shop in either Khopa or Fahruni



Since CCP coded in 'corporate' bookmarks i'm painstakingly distilling most of my bookmarks into the allowed slots.

Also moving most of my blueprint copies to amod SOE station...sadly i'm forced to use the corporate 'based at' privilege as an extra security measure against theft (since i need both a station to store BPCs and another station to store valuable non-blueprint stuff)

Bubbles Burst

I recently discovered a new 3rd party program called "EveRefinery" after googling "is it better to reprocess than sell straight to market?" I've been ratting in Angel Forsaken Hub anomalies in our Alliance's new backyard and salvaging a tonne of loot. This is the first real effort i put into isk making since last year when we were on holiday in Querious. I didn't think much back then or in the past about how the market was; to me it always seemed like demand by players that used the items drove prices up and that traders would capitalize on buying up whatever module was in demand by the player base. A couple weeks ago i trundled off to market through a wormhole and took some time to compare how much i'd get from reprocessing versus selling to buy orders traders put up...i figured the REALLY expensive items were worth way more than the mineral price of reprocessing the same item. Boy, was i wrong. massively wrong about "if it's expensive it can't possibly be worth it's weight in minerals", and especially now.

Dev Blog - what is going on with mineral prices? 

Today i braved the weekend warriors in the Curse pipe (namely K-Q) with my smuggler (newly outfitted - the ECM burst sucked from my earlier fit) and got my pigs to market...

Had some scary moments, but for the most part it was a successful jaunt with some excitement at one point early on when i had to crash the CL gate in K-Q with two of my pilots at the same time - my hands were shaking so much i couldn't use my mouse properly. lol. I was stuck for a bit so waited around for some poor schmuck to get shot instead...

Waiting for a bison to run over took a while so i amused myself by making extreme range pounce points off the CL stargate with one of my three pilots until said bison showed up and i got all 3 in system and safely on my way to high sec. Unfortunately, on the way back my main character got shot in a drive by and lost a set of implants worth a total of 100m isk. ouch. and some rifter blueprint copies (whoop dee doo) 
 I got out fuel block BPOs (3 amarr;3 caldari) researched to max, about half dozen other original blueprints that were surplus (junk basically) although one is a small anti-explosive pump rig BPO researched to max that is going to be useful at my research complex (still Kourmonen's 5 lab stations.) Along with 3000 faction large ammo, some more tags for my collection, and a bunch of items worth more selling straight to jita buyers than reprocessing for the mineral value including a "Domination 100mn afterburner" that's worth about 100m isk right there.

 ***

Oh, as for other news i finally unlocked the last of my blueprints in my research complex stations and have been losing many ships by seneschal, in that area, from either game mechanics bugging up or pure stupid "ooooo shiny thing" lack of concentration and being AFK in low sec - just a symptom i've gotten lazy about safety near my research complex:
kerblam,
and,
then,
and,
then.
Hereticus fared a little better although he did lose a shiny Sabre interdictor inside a cargo hold of a viator. them's expensive! am i mad, bro?  
My main character has been really happy with a new ship (Sacrilege) and has, after many weeks of ratting, and very little dying (or killing) has gotten an iteration of the perfect fitting for PVE.

So, yeah, i'm happy raking in about 7m isk every 15minutes. I hope this new iteration makes alot more, especially once i successfully get the proper implants from high sec (see "shot in a drive by" killmail.)  Escalations off these lowly anomalies i'm doing aren't worth doing, so i'm missing out on juicy drops but i think i can manage - it's way more than i'm used to.  

*** 

 Do i want to really get back into mining? not while i'm on vacation. I do hope to get an Orca bought at some point when they get cheaper. 700m isk for one? yuck! here's the fit i'll be using: 

[Orca, Supertanker JesterTrek] 

Damage Control II 

Reinforced Bulkheads II 

Domination X-Large Shield Booster 

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I 

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 

Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II 

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter 

Small Tractor Beam I 

Large Core Defense Field Extender I 

Large Core Defense Field Extender I 

Large Core Defense Field Extender I 

Vespa EC-600 x5 Hobgoblin II x5 

 Will i stick with this Alliance? Probably for a long time although i am being very careful about how much i invest in expensive things i might lose if things go tits up. I'm trying to keep it lean and mean in null sec and keep the fat transferred to my high sec carebear alt corp regularly. Speaking of which i just re-rented a couple dozen offices now that i have the income to maintain them, although i'll drop some of the more expensive ones once i'm sure which Ministry of Internal Order agent i want to go with - yup! I've gone from Theology Council fan to Sarum Family boi to finally the hated Ministry of Internal Order NPC corp as my favorite to run missions for. I didn't like the roleplaying aspect of doing that, but after learning about the amarrian epic arc storyline mission lvl4 agent belonging to said corp i couldn't say no any longer. I seriously want to get my corp's empire standing to a high enough level to get a 0.5 sec system POS system set up in the future and this corp is my ticket to that (especially since getting high empire standing means i can run the rest of the COSMOS agents for Amarr) 

Anyways, that's my current goals. My current fear is shown in a comment i made in Jester's blog, although while i wait for my penmanship to be cleared by the censors i just have the link to the comment i replied to  ...my reply's point had to do with how the insane risk aversion the more vocal members of the eve clientele tends to warp the "reality" of eve (in this case that "PVP is the core of the game"; aka Griefers) as a whole that outsiders hardly see as the reality at all, let alone the "perception" of eve in the mainstream (being "Eve is pro-PVP. yuck!"; aka Carebears)
The whole thing is a straw man. What I mean by that is outsiders are the silent majority who let the wallets do the walking, see the game as just another multiplayer game full of carebears and griefers as any game is - full of human folly - and leave the 'insiders' (aka the vocal griefers & carebears) content to weave a web of white/grey/black lies to their heart's content among the killers, socializers, achievers and explorers of a MMOG called "eve-online" who for the most part enjoy the element of risk in a game (but i think it got deleted out of hand for being flippant and poorly written)

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ~Mark Twain (who attributed it to Benjamin Disraeli)

ah...my original comment was cleared. haha. here it is in all it's confuzzlement:

Hmmm...There was a sci-fi space simulation MMO called "JumpGate" that i played through beta and into retail. They were crippled just after trying to branch out into another MMO that tanked horribly.
That's one opinion. The other opinion was that the developers were sucked into the same "perception is reality" spiel touted by the vocal and rabidly vicious minority who wanted more player killing "because the core of the game was pvp"...
The game base dwindled and it is no more. Will that happen here? IMHO no it won't. there's a critical mass of carebears (the socializers and achievers) that attract the explorers such as myself. A critical mass that simply cannot be killed off by the griefers.
Besides, griefers and carebears alike abhor risk. each are prone to risk aversion. I think this colors the "reality" itself. The "perception" merely seduces the developers and clients alike to buy the 'straw horse' of the so called "reality" being beaten between opposing poles of the 'risk aversion' camps.
Outsiders neither care nor see the "reality" because 'reality' is soooo much different. The minority shout long and loud and the silent majority whose wallets do the walking have the last laugh. As long as CCP never lose sight of this i'm confident this game will never die.